Whitney Clapper is a fierce advocate for our better future, a future that is socially and environmentally just and equitable. She works in Global Environmental Marketing at Patagonia. She says that time and time again listening to her heart and gut when making hard decisions and then choosing to speak up has opened doors to the life and career she now lives.
For more information about Faith, Addie and The Trail Ahead go to https://www.thislanddoc.com/thetrailahead.
Discussed in this episode:
Essay “Speak Your Truth Even If Your Voice Shakes,” by Whitney Clapper
Whitney on Instagram
Faith E. Briggs: Welcome to the Trail Ahead, Conversations at the Intersection of Race, Environment, History, and Culture. We're your hosts, Faith and Addie. We bring on folks from all walks of life to have real, authentic messy dialog that lead to tangible change.
Addie Thompson: Every time I speak from a space of utter humility and letting hurt do and say what it's going to say, it's never been a wrong thing to do, and actually it's opened doors. That actually has been what's propelled me through my career, in a lot of cases. I think I've gotten to this point of silence is worse than being fired, and it would haunt me more if I saw an injustice or I experienced injustice and didn't say something, than getting fired for maybe speaking the truth. Our guest this week is Whitney Clapper. Whitney leads global environmental activism marketing at Patagonia, one of the presenting sponsors of the Trail Ahead Podcast. She's a leader, activist, and change-maker, as well as a multi-sport athlete, storyteller and fierce friend.
Faith E. Briggs: I first met Whitney while working on a film tour for a documentary called "Jungle Wild." I've looked up to her ;ever since. In this episode, we talk to Whitney about her work inside and outside Patagonia, and the different shapes her activism takes from day to day, one of which is replacing a typical bio on her LinkedIn profile with a list of beliefs and causes she stands for. We also touch on an idea that I have carried with me during this past year, in particular. Speak the truth even if your voice shakes. A note to listeners, this interview contains a description of a disturbing racist incident.
Whitney Clapper: I am Whitney Conner Clapper. I go by she/her/hers pronouns. I am currently and have been, really for the duration of COVID, home which is on the ancestral lands of the Chumash, specifically the Ventureño and Barbareño bands of Chumash. I am a Patagonia employee and work closely as the Environmental and Activism Marketer.
Addie Thompson: What Patagonia and, I believe it was in the beginning of 2020, but saying like, "We're no longer in the business of selling clothing. We're in the business of saving the planet." How did that happen? How does a brand do that, and how does that directly relate to your job and interesting title?
Whitney Clapper: I don't even know what my real title is. We went through this practice at Patagonia where we were supposed to some up with unconventional titles. It was an HR exercise. I really tried to push forward Unicorn Wrangler, but they didn't want me to [inaudible 00:03:00] that, but that's, kind of, what I feel like I do sometimes. So, technically, as the environmental marketer, it's working very closely with our Enviro Campaigns Team, and they are a team that is really focused on environmental issues. That spans the gamut. There are probably 30 plus different environmental topics at any given time that we are tracking. Some are obviously bigger than others. Oftentimes, they ebb and flow based on president and political... whatever is in the political landscape and the news, and that sort of thing. So it's everything from broad climate to arctic Bears Ears, all of the different rollbacks. Whenever we want to have more of a public-facing moment, that's where I come in. I was their Marketer. I think one of the things I actually really appreciate and love about being the Enviro and Activism Marketer is that I don't have to speak to an audience that's going to fit a product. So it opens up doors for me in ways that it just doesn't for our product teams, at this point.
Whitney Clapper: So, as a result, I'm never going to put a paid plan together to speak to our core audience. The core audience is core because they tune into everything, and they show up to events, and we don't have to extend special invites, necessarily, to them. So, quite often, where I'm trying to go is much more of, "Who are those people that have never set foot in a Patagonia Store? Who are those people that, maybe, also care about the Arctic but, maybe, don't even own a piece of Patagonia clothing or, much less, any sort of item from the outdoor industry. I'm really fascinated at trying to meet those new people. It's, kind of, a newer tactic, I think, for Patagonia, in some cases, where it's not that I don't care and love about our core audience, but that's not my focus. My focus is new.
Faith E. Briggs: How does the brand do that? I don't necessarily think that people would necessarily expect... Listening to you right now, they might think that you work at an environmental conservation group.
Whitney Clapper: The way it works for Patagonia, and the way the mission statement that we have had for 30 plus years, kind of, changed overnight, as we're still privately owned. So the owners, the Chouinards, asked for us to change the mission statement to we're in business to save the home planet. It was really due to the fact of the planet is burning up, and the urgency of really needing to figure out how to be better about all of our different actions, knowing full well that business is dirty. But there is this balance, and it's a balance we, kind of, talk about every single day, is, "Yeah, we're actually a clothing company. Or are we an activist company?" What voice is louder, and it ebbs and flows, whether we're a clothing company or an activist company, and I think we're finding that balance of, "How can do both?"
Faith E. Briggs: What was your experience like being in a large, very recognizable brand during the Black Lives Matter uprisings of this summer?
Whitney Clapper: The thing that surprised me and didn't surprise me, at the same time, was that it felt like, for whatever reason, Patagonia finally had to pay attention, and I think the thing that surprised me is that, why did it have to take all of these uprising deaths, fear, hatred, pain, struggling, human lives lost for us to pay attention? At the same time, I'm not surprised because it has not been a world that has really been forced upon a basically white privilege brand. Patagonia's not unique, in the outdoor industry to probably going through similar emotions.
Whitney Clapper: I grew up in a small town in the Midwest, where my neighbor, down the street, I remember going over to his house one day, and he literally had hung a Black Cabbage Patch Kid in his garage and was beating it, and it was horrifying to me because two miles the other way, down my street, was this small liberal arts college where my did was an English professor, and that's why we lived in this community is he'd gotten this job, and it was an international... We had people from all over the world at this small little school. So I grew up in the space of all different races, all different cultures, my dad constantly had students to our house. Then, the rest of the community, outside of this college, it was really conservative. It was horrifically racist. It was the St. Louis area, and there was a lot of crime and violence, and redlining.
Whitney Clapper: All of this was what I, kind of, grew up with, and that led me into more of wanting to do more with sociology, cultural anthropology, and just wanting to get to know people and cultures. Early on, I had to, kind of, have racial conversations. I guess I share that because I just had a different experience, coming into the outdoor industry and recognizing that there's a very different... I'm not trying to say a very different experience, but not everyone had that chance, or had that space to grow up in. Not everyone had to confront race at Patagonia and outdoor industry until this summer, which is where it's like I'm surprised that this iS actually the case, and I'm not surprised, at the same time.
Whitney Clapper: I think what I struggl;ed with a lot was also this... For the five years I've been in this role, I've been trying... And I'm not the only one, and Ii shouldn't say me, as in... I'm definitely not the only one asking these questions, but I had been trying to do a lot of asking the harder questions of our HR, of my bosses. We recognized the need for system change well before this summer. So why did it take so long for us to act? We've had plenty of different conversations around privilege and constantly being asked why we don't have a very diverse ambassador list, let alone employee.
Whitney Clapper: None of these questions are necessarily new, so why did it have to take this summer for us to actually look at it and figure out what to do about it? I think that was the hardest part, for me, where I feel like there's so much we could have done, and I wish we had done, prior to this summer. A lot of that comes down to just not feeling heard. When I asked these questions, I oftentimes felt, kind of, like a mosquito in the room. I've been told I'm too passionate. I've been told to sit down and do my job, and not make a scene, but it doesn't work for me.
Faith E. Briggs: I loved this quote from where you said, "It wasn't until I entered the corporate world that I really began to comprehend that my voice matters." You've also said that you've equated the experience of using your voice to being a full-body experience. We also know that you use your social platforms, every platform. Your LinkedIn is amazing. So excited to see all these incredible messages that you've put out into the world. What is that experience like for you? What does using your voice mean to you, and why has it become so important to do so in the work that you do?
Whitney Clapper: I think the answer, kind of, probably has to start back a little bit in childhood and just, again, in the crazy community I lived in, where it was racism out one door, but this liberal global college out the other door. I grew up really with parents who... My dad was an English professor but, quite often, stood up for students and stood up for the rights of those what were quote/unquote "lesser than," and I witnessed that quite often. It wasn't this needing to have a voice heard. It was literally because he felt like he needed to. It was almost like, all of a sudden you just find yourself saying something and doing something, versus plotting it out. It was that sort of sensation that I witnessed from him and then similar from my mom. We recycled before recycling was cool. We made clothes and, kind of, worn weared clothes before it was cool. And it was one of those things where I learned a lot from witnessing that. I think because I had them as an example.
Whitney Clapper: It wasn't until I lost my mom in '99 and my dad in '03, and I was, kind of, on my own as I entered corporate world, and I entered my professional space that I had to discover that I, too, had this inner voice that I found myself doing things that weren't necessarily what I, air quotes, "should do" to be a good employee or a good woman, or whatever. I would do it because, all of a sudden, I was just doing it because I couldn't not, and I think what really cemented this need to use voice was seeing a quote from... Oh, gosh, I'm not remembering her name. "Speak the truth even if your voice shakes," and I have been in many conversations where I have felt like my entire being shake, but I've still said whatever it is I need to say.
Faith E. Briggs: I just want to go back to your link for a second, because it's really impacted us with, "Addie and I have-"
Addie Thompson: I read it out loud to Faith because we were cooking last night.
Faith E. Briggs: It was amazing, and we were like, "Wait, everyone needs to stop what they were doing, go to Whitney Clapper's LinkedIn and understand how space can be used in different ways. You talked about how and when you came to be like, "You know what I actually want to say, and I'm going to say here?" How did that come to be?
Whitney Clapper: God. I don't even remember. I think I just... LinkedIn is a funny thing, where any given day, I might be looking for a new job, but I'm not really looking for a new job, but I've always kept it updated. I think, at one point, someone had asked me for a review or testimony, or whatever the hell they're called on LinkedIn, that led me to their profile, which, then, of course, you go down this rabbit hole because you get the link, and the side of LinkedIn where like, "Other people view these people." It's like YouTube shows, "You should watch this." Next thing you know, you're seeing all these other peoples' profiles. Then I went back to mine, and I was like, "This just feels like rote and kind of dull and not actually representative.
Whitney Clapper: I also realized I hadn't really updated it since years ago. I just remember having this moment of like, "I'm going to put this in my... This is what comes to me to say," and "This is going to be a better slice of who may want to work with me or who... If they can respond to some of the things I've put in here versus whatever the list of accolades you have, over the years, this is going to be more telling of maybe who sends me notes.
Whitney Clapper: I think, just by default of being a Patagonia employee, I get people every day, it feels like, asking for jobs at Patagonia or wanting to learn more. So I guess it was partly also somewhat selfish, far as like... I don't want to spend my time just answering random LinkedIn requests. If you really want to talk to me about something I care about something I care about, now you know what I want to talk or don't want to talk about. I don't need the small talk. I need the real talk.
Faith E. Briggs: Hey listeners. Fun fact. This week our partners at Trail Butter want you to experience the yum that is their product. Addie and I are huge fans. Our favorite is the Maple Sea Salt Almond Butter. Try it out with a 20% discount for any purchase over 20 bucks, by going on their website and entering the promo code TRAIL AHEAD.
Addie Thompson: Faith, I had to admit the Patagonia Strider Shorts are my new favorite. This time I got these because you always wear them, and I was jealous. So now I think we're even.
Faith E. Briggs: It's true. I love these shorts. The elastic band makes them a comfy fit, and the little pocket in the back is perfect for a phone or some snacks, and so far, no chafing which is a very real thing for me.
Addie Thompson: Oh, so real. They're also so light. They're Fair Trade Certified sown, and made with a mix of recycled materials Where have you been running these days?
Faith E. Briggs: I've been staying close to home, checkout out back alleys and nearby trails that I hadn't explored before the pandemic. Ant I'm really glad it's warm enough for shorts again.
Addie Thompson: Totally.
Faith E. Briggs: Patagonia in the business of saving our home planet, and making the best trail running shorts ever.
Addie Thompson: Okay, Faith, what is the Merrell Hydro Moc? I've started to see them popping up all over Instagram.
Faith E. Briggs: I could try to answer that question, but I think it makes more sense to ask one of the coolest people I know, a staple of the New York City run community, Jeb [Hilado 00:17:22]. So I got the scoop from him.
Jeb Hilado: Hydro Mocs? Love them. In the summertime, I'm in the woods a lot. I go camping. I can hang out at the lake and they just seem like the perfect shoes. They're ventilated, and they're waterproof. I just did a 50k. Probably like the last 10 miles, I was like, "Ah, I just can't wait to get these shoes back on. They're... I can let them breathe and recover."
Faith E. Briggs: You heard it from the source, an NYC sneaker head, marathoner, ultra runner, and one of the most stylish people I know. Thanks Jeb. The Merrell Hydro Moc. Walk. Don't run to get you a pair. When we say playing outside, what does that make you think of? Where do you go?
Whitney Clapper: I think early 2000, when I joined outdoor industry, it was about being in these pristine, remote locations, doing your sport, and it was about different waves that you are surfing, and did you get barrelled? Was the wave over the top of you, and were you riding it at the same time versus thinking about whose land you might be on, or thinking about the privilege that comes from being able to go these pristine remote locations. That was just not a part of the conversation, early on in my experience, by any means. I feel like a lot of that has shifted, and there's much more an awareness and awakening that's coming to the industry as a whole, which is good to see.
Faith E. Briggs: I wanted to ask you about the Gwich'in. I've had the extreme privilege of going up and visiting both [Unity 00:19:07] and Arctic Village, which are two Gwich'in villages near the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and I'd love if you could talk a little about, maybe, for someone who's never heard about the Gwich'in and have never heard about the Porcupine Caribou Herd, or the drilling in the Coastal Plain. Could you give us sense of the conversation there, and what your personal relationship has been, too?
Whitney Clapper: The Gwich'in are, to me, some of the most resilient native people that I have ever interacted with. That's probably a pretty silly statement, in some cases, because Lord knows there has been resilience from all sorts of different native nations. Thinking about, one, just the remoteness of the Arctic and the fact to your point that very few people will ever visit the Arctic Refuge versus, maybe, some of the communities that are in the lower 48 of the U.S. I feel like the remoteness makes it a taller order, in some cases, and the work that the Gwich'in have been doing for decades against big oil. A small community against big oil is absolutely no joke, and it totally David and Goliath.
Whitney Clapper: Then you add in state leaders and senators and representatives who also call out what a wasteland the Arctic is. A few of their words. A few of their words have significant change and sway in D.C., and these are their state representatives, and leaders who don't actually even recognize the Gwich'in as people, and they are the original people of these lands. So they have been fighting to keep their way of life forever, and it's one of those where if you think about the conditions of living in Arctic, even Fairbanks. It's less than general. It is so far from Continental U.S. Gallons of milk cost upwards to 13 bucks a gallon type of thing. Fruit is not grown.
Whitney Clapper: There are some things that take for granted, and can go to the grocery store and get, in a heartbeat, and it's just either very hard or extremely costly for them to survive without their dependency on the Porcupine Caribou herd which is their lifeblood, is their sustenance, and the proposed drilling sites and where many of the drilling locations already are is directly in line of the migrational route of the Porcupine Caribou Herd. So it's not just a question of migrational routes changing. It's a question of their having lands, their birthing lands of the Caribou are all in jeopardy. It's all for big oil. It's just not longterm sustainable thinking.
Whitney Clapper: So there's so many reasons why we of Patagonia have been in this fight for decades, and it's a similar fight for Navajo Nation. There're so many places where it's similar fights. It's pipelines. It's oil. It's big industry, and it's all short-term thinking and short-term gain. This is a 40 plus year fight. So can you imagine the permanent protection of the Arctic would be so significant, and just a start for many other locations to experience the same sort of thing. Our hope, fingers crossed, is that Deb [Holland 00:22:42] can also help step in as Secretary of the Interior and continue to, not only further support Gwich'in and Arctic Indigenous, but so many of our other native partners that are also struggling in the fights with extractive industries and big oil on their sacrad lands.
Faith E. Briggs: You are also an activist, yourself, apart from the brand you work at, and I think it's also clear through different social platforms, from messaging you've put out into the world unapologetically so that you are telling us that we need to be learning from indigenous communities. I wondered if you could speak more to that, and the ideologies you've seen and are now sharing with the world through your platforms. What do we need to be immediately paying attention to and adopting and learning from these amazing indigenous leaders and communities that you work with?
Whitney Clapper: I'm perpetually amazed at how many long-time indigenous practices that we're trying to actually go back to now, whether we know it or not. Quite often, what I'm finding is that we're going back to original practices and renaming it so it looks like it's this new thing when, actually, it's not. Regenerative organic is the perfect example of that. That's, kind of, a splashy new name, but if you really look at eh way our indigenous native friends cared for the land, it is exactly that. It's nurturing and caring for the land. It's no till. It's no synthetics. It's no synthetic fertilizers. It's all these things that actually... If you stop and just, kind of, pause to think about what the land may need and think for a moment that the land may actually have answers for us, the waters, if you listen, might actually have answers for us instead of us feeling like we need to dominate and own and till and mold... It is exactly how it was. So I think that there are so many examples. It's soil maintenance. It's care for the land. It's public lands, the relationship there. It is fire management. There are so many stories of being able to tract colonization through how forests and trees were managed, and being able to know that history of when people were moved off certain lands, based on fire history and how forests are now overgrown.
Whitney Clapper: Let's just call it what it is, and recognize what it is, that we have a lot to learn from some of these different ancestors. I think, even in the care and treatment of one another. I had the chance to be at one of the Gwich'in gatherings, and there was definitely animosity between different tribal members. There's decades of conflicts within the Gwich'in. I remember witnessing different Gwich'in leaders take the time to listen to one another, even when they were in brutal conflict with one another.
Whitney Clapper: Take the time to listen, to pause, to just take quiet moments as they were gathering thoughts. It was one of these moments where I thought, "God dammit. I wish... If I could even learn how to do that in a meeting, let alone in conflict with someone else," that was true wisdom and teaching for me. I feel like there's countless moments and stories and situations where I just continuously feel like we are trying to go back to how it was done pre colonization. Really, I guess the lesson is I hope we can acknowledge what we're doing and call it what it is. Let's just figure out how we can honor indigenous ways and learn from and move forward.
Whitney Clapper: I guess the only other thing I would say on that, too, is in this public lands journey that Patagonia has been on, and Faith, I'm curious your perspective on this land, but one of the things I've also loved about indigenous relationship with land is that it is exactly that. It's relationship. It's honoring of. It's not ownership. It's not their land versus our land. It's not our land. It's not your land. There isn't a possession when it comes to nature from indigenous ways. I've always so appreciated that, because the sense of dominance. The sense of performative action to possess. I feel like we're missing the mark and we're spending a lot of energy missing the mark, when we actually could be in unity and harmony in relationship a lot more with land, waters, people, all of the above.
Faith E. Briggs: What you're saying resonates a lot with me, and it feels like we're in a conflict with the systems that we've created. So we still have to work with the new systems as we try to create pathways that bring us back to indigenous practices. I think, especially when I was in grad school, I was working on a project about Native American cultural appropriation in fashion, and I was trying to not be touch-feely about it. So I was like, "I'm going to talk about the economic repercussions of this. I'm going to talk what it means to be taking money out of Native communities, and that's what you're doing when you buy these knockoffs, and all this stuff, and I did the first cut of it, and after watching it, I realized that I had really done an injustice by not talking about spirit and not talking about the relationships with the land.
Faith E. Briggs: I was so worried that they would come off as being too touch-feely and, yet, all of the people in my film who were all Native creators and First Nation artists, that was a part of them and it was a part of who they were. So I really started to try to go back and really listen differently, and realize I don't have to feel like I'm going to be too touchy-feely if I talk about the spirit of the land, and I talk about listening to what the earth is telling. I guess just to say that, for me, calling myself a conservationist, talking about being a public land owner, is still buying into the conceit that land can be owned, in order to work within the systems and the laws and the policies that we have set up. In order to try to advocate in that way, that said, I know that even saying I'm a public land owner is also flawed.
Whitney Clapper: I guess I don't have a totally formulated thought. It's more of I also don't... For me, it's not all so worth shaming. I have plenty of friends that wear the public landowner t-shirts. It personally always makes me cringe, and it always makes me like, "Oh I, kind of, hope you know what that really means," but also I guess I feel like I am trying to be better about, how do we keep ourselves curious to want to ask the questions? I feel like so many of these different issues, I feel it at Patagonia, two. There has to be a vulnerableness for us to really learn through all of these different social norms, narratives, whatever it may be that we are growing up and living in, and to move beyond that.
Whitney Clapper: I hope that people start to feel more comfortable in the uncomfortableness of just asking the questions to people that, maybe, they wouldn't normally ask the questions to. Those people, then, can feel absolutely comfortable responding however they want to because they might be exhausted from answering certain questions, and that's totally legitimate. But how do we stay curious to be better, do better, learn more? That's a hope I have for myself, but for Patagonia, for outdoor industry, as well. I guess I hope that we can become more open to hearing and wanting to ask the questions to help open and broaden those different perspectives so that we can, kind of, evolve in a way to be more human and real.
Faith E. Briggs: Thank you, Whitney, for your openness and inspiration. We both had so much fun in that conversation. To learn more about Whitney, you can follow her at outlive.the.bastards on Instagram or @whitneycclapper on Twitter. Also, we highly suggest checking out her LinkedIn. It's one of the best we've ever seen. For more ways to get involved, you can visit patagonia.com/actionworks. We'll provide additional links on our website thislanddoc.com/thetrailahead.
Faith E. Briggs: The Trail Ahead is created and hosted by us, Faith E. Briggs and Addie Thompson. It's produced by Lantigua Williams & Co. Jen Chien is our Editor. Elizabeth Nakano is our Producer. Sound design and music by Cedric Wilson. Our podcast art is by Shar Tuoasia. Check her out on Instagram @punkyaloha.
Faith E. Briggs: Special thanks to our amazing teams from Merrell, Adam Koepfer, Lauren King, Will Pray, and from Patagonia, Bianca Botta, Sasha Teninty, Clare Gallagher, and Whitney Clapper. Big thanks also to Trail Butter and Outdoorsy. And thanks to our team on the visual side, Tyler Wilkinson-Ray, Fred Goris, and Monica Medellin. Thank you for listening and for spreading the word. Follow The Trail Ahead on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. See you next episode.