Lydia grew up in Santa Fe, New Mexico (Tewa lands) and is Huichol (Wixáritari) and Pascua Yaqui (Yoeme). Lydia earned her Bachelors of Science from California State University, Monterey Bay in Environmental Science, Technology and Policy. Lydia now resides in Tucson, Arizona (O’odham & Yaqui lands) where she earned her PhD at the University of Arizona in the Department of Environmental Sciences, with a minor in American Indian Policy. Her research interests are in soil health, environmental remediation, Indigenous science, mining policy, and environmental data ownership by tribal nations. Lydia is a 2014 University of Arizona NIEHS Superfund Program trainee, a 2015 recipient of National Science Foundation’s Graduate Research Fellowship Program, a 2019 American Geophysical Union “Voices for Science” Fellow, and a current Native Nations Institute Indigenous Data Sovereignty Doctoral Scholar.
Find out more about Lydia at https://nativesoilnerd.com/
For more information about Faith, Addie and The Trail Ahead go to https://www.thislanddoc.com/thetrailahead
.
Faith E. Briggs: Welcome to The Trail Ahead. Conversations at the intersection of race, environment, history, and culture. We are your co-hosts, Faith and Addie.
Addie Thompson: We bring on folks from all walks of life to have real, authentic, messy dialogue that can lead to tangible change.
Lydia Jennings: Soil is this like amazing medium beneath our feet, this entire universe beneath our feet that we don't even think about. We like degrade it by calling it dirt. And like, it's so beautiful. And it literally like holds our whole world together.
Faith E. Briggs: That's this episode's guest, Lydia Jennings. She calls herself the native soil nerd. She has a PhD in soil microbiology with a minor in American Indian policy.
Addie Thompson: She's a scientist, a policy wonk, a creative and a runner. That's how we met, through running.
Faith E. Briggs: For this episode, we actually sat down to speak a few times about her research around mining, her background as a trail runner, and why language like find your tribe is problematic.
Addie Thompson: First, we sat outside at a trailhead after a training run. It turns out that even at remote trailheads, traffic can make podcasting kind of tricky. So please excuse the audio quality.
Lydia Jennings: Hi, everyone. I'm Lydia. And I'm going to introduce you to my traditional language. So [foreign language 00:01:25] Lydia. I'm from the Pascua Yaqui tribe and the Huichol Wixáritari tribe, my mom's side, Pascua Yaqui, my father's side. And we are here today in Tucson in Madera Canyon, which is a traditional lands of O'odham nation, as well as the Pascua Yaqui tribes. And there's a variety of indigenous names for this mountain, which I'm not going to go into, because I can't pronounce well.
Faith E. Briggs: As you heard, Lydia located us by talking about the history of the land we were meeting on. So we asked her to talk about land acknowledgement to further orient folks with the practice.
Lydia Jennings: For those that are unfamiliar, land acknowledgement is really a recognition of the traditional lands on which we are visiting, are occupying, are living on. And it's important because this ecosystem that we see today has not always been like that. In large part, a lot of these lands have always had indigenous stewardships of the lands. And in some cases, they were removed. In some cases, the lands were taken illegally or legally, depending on who you talk to. And so it's really important to recognize, especially as an environmental scientist, as we think about the lands and how to care for them, that we really learn from the first land stewards of the places in which we live.
Addie Thompson: Later in a quieter place inside, we continued our interview and we got back to her love of soil pretty quickly.
Lydia Jennings: Soil literally like filters toxins from the water. It helps provide food for us. It's like really beautiful to see and it awesome to touch. And when you touch it, like you actually... If you're a gardener, for example, you're less likely to get depressed. And so it has all of these amazing qualities, but we are so disconnected from it. Even though we're actually probably interacting with soil almost just as much as water, right? And you often hear people talk about water is life, but like soil is life, too. It like literally is like creating this life.
Lydia Jennings: I think I also really relate to the soil molecules and how complex and how diverse they are because every ecosystem you go to, it's a small combination of like the climate and the parent material of the geology in that area and the slopes and angles and the water and the organisms that really create all of those soils, right? And I just think that it's so unique and it's so place-based, and it's like the genius of place that creates these amazing soils.
Faith E. Briggs: I know you paint with soil, you make paints from the soil that you collect. Can you talk more about that?
Lydia Jennings: Yeah. So I have been working with some other soil scientists and really thinking about the artistic functions and ways of soil. And I think it's really important to recognize how many indigenous people over time have always been using soils as artistic means, and how much like pottery and how much painting are based around soils and the knowledge of the landscapes and getting specific pigments or specific minerals into that artwork, is coming from knowing the land.
Lydia Jennings: And I think that is like one of the most beautiful parts. And so I'm really trying to reconnect to that knowledge system as well. I get to go to all of these amazing places with running and being able to see really beautiful soils and I started to collect them on my runs. And I want to create my own set of Sonoran Desert paints, really related to places that I've experienced. There's a lot of this inherent traditional knowledge around soils. It's been really established through artistic practices, but I think there's so much science in the artistic practices as well. And so I'm really wanting to kind of flush out my own experience of that and reconnect with those soils in my own community, through running and through making art.
Faith E. Briggs: So you're a PhD. One of the things that it is about includes mining. I think it's really interesting. I mean, when we talk about mining and when we talk about a lot of things, environmental movement, sometimes it's just extremely binary. It's very like black and white, and it's like cutting trees are bad and mining is bad. And in reality, it has to be more nuanced and more complicated than that based on the resources that we use, even in terms of getting to where you want to get. I'm wondering if you can talk about, I don't know, some of the nuances and some of the misunderstandings, maybe around mining and also like what's been fascinating for you and your research and maybe a bit about like what your research is in terms of mining.
Lydia Jennings: Yeah. So I say generally, like you said, my research is sort of around mining and actually I would say it's like overall around mining and I tried to understand mining from two different perspectives, one from like a policy legal American Indian studies perspective, so thinking about how mining has impacted tribal nations, how we talk about land sovereignty and how much of that is related to the 1872 General Mining Law, which is the principal charter about mining in the United States. It was enacted in a era that was really strong on manifest destiny, this idea that it is the United States' primary intent to spread capitalism and democracy across the United States, particularly in westward expansion.
Lydia Jennings: It was enacted in a time like the Homestead Act, the Desert Lands Act, a lot of these policies put into place to really encourage settlement onto lands that were traditional native people's lands that were recently dispossessed or about to be dispossessed, and so really ensuring this white settlement in each of these areas.
Lydia Jennings: And what I think is interesting about the 1872 General Mining Law, it's incredibly old. It's over 150 years old. And while most of those laws that were enacted around the same time as them, like the Homestead Act, those have really been repealed and updated, but the 1870 General Mining Law has really continued to hold this incredible staying power today. And as we talk about more, I think there's more of the general population is becoming aware of indigenous land rights and land sovereignty and the need to repair ecosystems after they've been mined, those laws haven't caught up. So that's really problematic and it's really around this way of viewing native peoples as less than.
Lydia Jennings: But the other part of my research is also, it's great to understanding and critique from the outside of how the mining industry is operating, but also how is the mining companies operating from within. What are the concerns that mining companies have in dealing with their waste? And the main type of waste I worked with this is something called mine tailings. And so the by-product of extracting the materials. So when you have an area, a mountain, for example, and it gets dynamited... And in Arizona with copper, 99% of that is rejected as waste. And the rest is the metal of interest like copper.
Lydia Jennings: And so with that huge amount of waste gets generated, and it's a issue figuring out how to make it less environmentally impactful. How can we stabilize these wastes through a variety of techniques? The one at the site I work at is something called cap and plant. And so it's taking soil from the desert and putting on top of the mine tailing materials to stabilize it, but then additionally growing plants on top of that soil cap to further prevent from any wind or water erosion.
Lydia Jennings: The last part I often like to just make sure and mention is that it's so easy for us to really critique these industries, and it's fair to do so, but also recognizing how much we are, as our lives are dependent on these metals. And so I'm talking to you today from Zoom and my cell phone, and I drove a car to get here. And so all of these things that the lifestyles that we enjoy living, that capitalism has introduced us to, it's also really important to recognize that component. And also being the primary consumers in a global North country, really recognizing if we're the primary consumers of these metals, then we also have kind of an ecological responsibility to that.
Faith E. Briggs: I think the last part of what you said really makes me think about demand, like supply and demand and consumers and then all of that stuff. Because, yes, I think many of us like have goals of, for example, owning an electric car. But at this point, most of us can't. Like I got a car this year and I paid $4,500 for it, because that's what I could pay for it. That's not going to get me an electric car quite yet. But yeah, I know, I just appreciate you bringing all of those points up.
Lydia Jennings: Well, and the other part, and kind of just a response to that is thinking about electric cars. Those require batteries, those require sometimes solar panels. The reality is, in my case, in the [Sonoran Desert 00:10:13], we have copper. Very copper, rich mountains. And copper is one of the best semi-conductors, there's nothing that can replace it currently. But also I think when we talk about these types of renewable energies, it's really a question of renewable for who? And also just really recognizing that these ideas of this sustainability is sometimes, sustainable for whoever what? Because these are still extractive in terms of requiring metals. And that process of extraction is still really water intensive. And so really, are we greenwashing some of these processes and some of these technologies, and really reassessing that.
Addie Thompson: Lydia, I wanted to go back to what you were just talking about with consultation. You alluded to kind of how right now it's flawed, or it's not necessarily how you would like to see it, and then you're studying ways in which we could potentially improve that, and make it so much better than it is now. I just wondered if you could speak a little bit more to that tribal consultation, and how it currently is conducted, and how you'd like to see that change?
Lydia Jennings: Yeah, so currently the tribal consultation we have, and really it was not widely enacted into policy until 2009. The Clinton administration had a little bit of ideas of tribal consultation. It was strengthened more in the Obama administration. So when I just want to highlight again how recent it is, these ideas that Native people should be able to make their own decisions about their lands. Really some of those ideas of moving from what they call, "Determination Era" in federal Indian law, where we just want to make Native people assimilate, to this aspect of like, "Okay, actually Native people should be able to make their own decisions" really was in like 1970s, late seventies, early eighties.
Lydia Jennings: And then this idea that actually Native people should be in charge of their own lands, and be involved in being consulted on things that happen on their lands, or their ancestral lands was in really the early 2000s. And I think that's also, we have to talk about the lack of how most people don't know what tribal consultation or land sovereignty is, really until the Dakota Access Pipeline. But to kind of come back to your question, most of the common critique around the current consultation is that it's more of a process of notification, as opposed to, if a tribal nation has issues with that, they can really say, "Hey, this is our sacred mountain, we don't want this to happen," and they can make change or help determine where some of the mining waste might go. And that hasn't really been as strong in the past.
Lydia Jennings: And the other part, I think to, to really think for us as an environmental scientist is to think how we talk about Indigenous knowledge systems within that consultation practice. And so you often see Native knowledge being kind of relegated to either artifacts, or people of the past, relics of the past, or to cultural arguments, which I think are important, but they don't seem to hold teeth within the Environmental Impact Assessment process. And so, the other part, I think is really recognizing that most of the people who are conducting these studies are not Indigenous, they don't really understand Indigenous is contemporary and thriving relationships with these land bases. And so, in my research, I really found that there's three different strategies that tribal nations are doing. They're talking and defining what tribal consultation means to them in their tribal codes, in their country codes. And they define the timelines, what is adequate consultation? What is readdress? Who pays for the consultation? All of these really basic things in a lot of ways, that just hasn't been stipulated in law. And so, often an industry or state agencies can be like, "Well, we didn't know what to do, so we just did our best." And so I think that's a really important [inaudible 00:13:45] like, now that can't be an argument anymore. It's putting it into the tribal code, or the tribal laws of what that means to them, and how that can be enacted to them.
Lydia Jennings: The next one is, I think that's super powerful, is how tribal nations are training their own scientists to conduct these types of assessments. And so again, if there is an external scientist, often hired from consultation companies conducting these, they are training their own scientists, not only in the settler science practices, but also in traditional ecological practices. So they have a much more robust understanding from both the piston ecologies.
Lydia Jennings: And then the third is really effectively using international policy, like United Nations, or Declaration of the Indigenous Peoples, to really help inform both mining industry, and scientists, what to consultation means and what are their obligations based on this international policy. And one of the things that always really struck me interesting is how much we talk about government to government, to consultation with Native nations, but yet we're still referred to as stakeholders when, no, we are rights holders. From the first contracts we had with the federal government, we are rights holders. But how are these current consultations, and policies put in place to really affirm these relationships, even just what they're putting into these documents and calling us stakeholders is so inaccurate, because we have these legal obligations. And so I think those are really very powerful examples of Indigenous peoples redefining, and no longer being okay with being on the table, but really creating their own table, instead.
Faith E. Briggs: We asked Lydia about the 2020 Supreme Court Case, [McGirt 00:15:34] V, Oklahoma. It had a monumental impact on tribes in the Oklahoma region. It set a profound precedent for the conversation and legislation around Native land rights, and sovereignty in the United States. You can learn more in a podcast we all really enjoyed called This Land.
Lydia Jennings: I have a lot of friends who are Native lawyers. We were all watching very closely because of those implications, and recognizing the Indigenous lands that they reside on and how it might impact taxation, I think are really important aspects. But the other question I think was left is like, cool, so what state is next? And I think a state like Arizona, where there's so much, people call it, "Natural resources," I'm really learning to recall it as, so many of relatives that are being exploited and extracted from, I think that that has such incredible implications for our state, and it should. And I think, we saw with the 20, 20 election, a lot of people being like, "Oh, well, if somebody gets reelected, I'm moving out." And they're like, "Cool, just make sure that you deed your land back to your local tribal nation."
Lydia Jennings: That's how I felt about it anyways, like, "Cool, because no-one's going to be better and take care of it than us." And, if you don't like the politics that are entrenched here, then cool, just give us back our land.
Faith E. Briggs: No, yeah, I think it's super relevant and I think the Land Back movement is more recognizable, and more people are learning about it than ever before. And it seems like, I know it's a really important thing to be aware of, particularly for folks that are in the co in the capacity to maybe be able to do it you know? Particularly for landowners who a lot of times there is an option of, what happens to this land when I'm gone, or what's the best thing I can do with it now?
Lydia Jennings: Yeah. So it isn't just the ground that you're asking for, in Land Back. Or for specific piece of paper of deed to that land. It's much more of also thinking about on a systemic level. So as a soil microbiologists to think about when we talk about land back, it's also thinking about the entire ecology of the air system, and the water and the plants, and animals and the ecology and microbes in that soil system, and really wanting that system, the land to be alive, so that can it continue to be self perpetuating. So when we talk about it, it is also recognizing that Indigenous land managements and Indigenous people having access to those lands, and their education, and their pharmacies, and their food pantries are all connected to those lands. And so, it's really this desire to go as closely as possible back to traditional means, and continuing to learn that.
Lydia Jennings: I actually have a little sentence here if I don't mind and it's from the Land Back Editorial Collective. And so it's really thinking about Land Back is more than just the sum of its parts of the land itself, but it really requires us to consider how we as Indigenous people may govern ourselves within the intentions and traditions of our ancestors. And that land itself is fundamentally a social relationship. And I really love that because I think, especially as environmental scientists, we tend to think of it as a ecology itself, but it's really the sum of all of those different things and relationships that we have with the land. And so, on the most simplistic level, it's getting that land back, and you're seeing actually some cities that are giving their land back to the tribal nations, and ensuring that the tribal nations, or sovereign nations themselves have the ability to govern their own land management practices. We're really seeing that particularly around returning back to traditional fire management practices and things like that. And so, that's a good first step, but that's not the end goal.
Faith E. Briggs: If we're honest, I first got the Patagonia Houdini jacket out of pure jealousy because you always had one, and it just seemed like the most helpful layer.
Addie Thompson: That's so crazy. I genuinely had no idea that's why you got yours. Yeah. Mine's been through sleet and Chamonix, wind in the white mountains, heat in the desert, basically everywhere.
Faith E. Briggs: To say it's a staple for both of us is an understatement. It's super light, folds into a pocket, it's a layer that doesn't feel like a commitment, for you commitment-phobes, and I usually just wedge it in the back of my sports bra half the time.
Addie Thompson: I've been running with the Houdini for over five years now, the same Houdini. It fits right in your vest or your pocket or your hand.
Faith E. Briggs: The Patagonia Houdini jacket, transform your world.
Addie Thompson: Oh, here we go again. Remember when I landed in the PDX airport and pulled out brand new Agility Peak Flexes fresh out of the box and decided to run 20 miles? I was like, this is so dumb, why am I doing this?
Faith E. Briggs: I know. You know it's a bad decision because no one ever runs more than like a 5k in brand new shoes, because chances are you're going to get blisters. But I did the exact same with the Antora 2s and we were both like, "Yep, this is what I'm going to do right now."
Addie Thompson: And then, the best run of my life.
Faith E. Briggs: Yes. It's like, you don't make the best decision for yourself at first, but then you find out that you actually did make a really good decision for yourself because you got really good shoes. And so even your potential self-sabotage wasn't successful.
Addie Thompson: Totally. And that's why we knew we could do the same thing with the Moab Speed and the Moab Flight this year.
Faith E. Briggs: Thanks Merrell for helping us help ourselves.
Addie Thompson: I want to switch gears for a second, change pace a little bit. You mentioned running, and I know that you're a huge runner. When we were able to visit you, you had just gone on several runs that weekend. I mean, I think just what kind of running do you do? What brought you outside and brought you to running in the first place? I know you thanked it in your recent dissertation. So how did you fall in love with running? Tell me about that.
Lydia Jennings: Yeah. Well, it's funny because growing up, up until middle school, I was more of a dancer. I did ballet and jazz. And then I remember as I was getting ready to start high school, my brother and my sister sat me down and they're like, "Are you going to run?" And I was like, "I don't know. It seems kind of dumb." And they're like, "No, no, no. Everyone in our family has run, and this is like a tradition and you need to do it too, because we're good at it." And I was like, "Ugh." And then I went to a boarding school. And so at our boarding school, there's only a few ways to get off of campus. And one of them was through sports. And it turned out running actually went off campus the most to run to... you get to go run in cool places. And then we'd stop and get fast food on the way home. And I was like, "This is awesome."
Lydia Jennings: And so that was a great start, right? But obviously I've continued to love running beyond having an excuse to get off campus and getting fast food. My running coach, he was [Dene 00:22:40], the Navajo Nation and he actually raised a lot of money for our school through running, specifically for scholarships for Native students. And so he really taught about running as being more than just a sport, but as kind of a lifelong goal of commitment and important lessons it teaches, but also thinking how running brings so many more blessings than just the physical act itself. And I think it is those lessons that have continued to stick with me.
Lydia Jennings: And so I ran my first year of college and I got injured and me and running had a major breakup. I think that's when I really got deep into being a scientist. But when I got back into running really after finishing up my undergraduate degree, I'd gone through a big breakup and I think it's really common for a lot of people to get into running, to meet new people. And it was really that point I started to really see these connections between what I learned in my classrooms and the jargon and all the different types of landscapes that I was seeing. And so like understanding why there's a gulch here, understanding the difference soil chemicals or water properties, vegetation that I was seeing along my runs. And so that's really nice started to align it more.
Lydia Jennings: And coming to the University of Arizona for grad school, which is my tribe's ancestral land, I think that was really where a lot of these parts of my life kind of clicked together. And so running around, I got to see all these abandoned mine shafts because there's tons of abandoned... old mines in Arizona. And so I think that was part of really understanding this issue that I'm studying from a physical, intellectual, and almost spiritual process of going and seeing some of these sites and seeing the impact that they have and continue to have on the land. Running up to the mountain peaks and seeing all the mine tailings and like wondering what it must've felt like for my ancestors to have seen mountains in these places that are now mining sites. But also just, I think really thinking of running as an important way of knowing the land.
Faith E. Briggs: And you've also invited other people into running and introduced to other folks to running, particularly before the pandemic when it was much easier for us to get around and hang out in groups. You started something called #SkoRunDen. Can you tell us some more about that?
Lydia Jennings: Yeah, so, you know what? It's funny because I did not grow here up in the Tucson area, in our traditional... the Tohono O'odham traditional homelands, but also, the Pascua Yaqui have a long enduring relationship with these lands. And because I ran in college, it was really easy for me to find a running community and get dialed in. And I knew the scene, I've kind of been around. I mean, it was a little less diverse than some of the running communities I've been part of in Tucson, which is interesting because Tucson is a very diverse city, but I was very easily able to find community. And that community was really awesome at showing me different trails.
Lydia Jennings: And it was really interesting to me that a lot of my own tribal community members were like, "Where are you going? I want to know where that's at." But really often not knowing people who engaged in trail running in that way or not knowing how to get started, like had lots of questions about shoes and gear. Though I will say, the Tohono O'odham nation itself has a really strong series of community runs, but that tends to be a little bit outside of Tucson. And so I thought it would be cool to kind of organize some runs for community members and for like just Native... There's a lot of Native students who come here from different parts of the state as well who want to connect with the land and get to know trails. But it can be intimidating to first get to know these places and not want to go by yourself.
Lydia Jennings: And so I basically was talking with some of my trail running friends and some of my Indigenous runner friends, and I was like, "Well, we should just combine these communities, right?" And so what it is, the #SkoRunDen, which is kind of a play, Indigenous slang on, 'let's go run then'. And basically, meet at different trail heads and have kind of guided routes of one to four to six to 10 miles. And you can kind of pick your own group, but you have someone leading the front, leading the back and kind of a couple of people in between to kind of go on these runs together, get to know the different trail heads areas, and then having snacks at the end. And also having people do blessings, have blessings for the runs, and even talking about... the person was [Ak-Chin 00:27:09], and so he really talked about the lands and why these plants are sacred, why these mountains are sacred.
Lydia Jennings: And so I think it was really helpful for a lot of the non-Indigenous people there too to understand the land in a better capacity. And I've seen people since create friendships from there, kind of run on their own. A lot of native people have told me like, "Oh, we need to do more of these. We need to do more of these." And I've just seen more people, more Native runners going out to the trailers and seeing them out there and seeing them post about it has been so exciting because I think it continues to build more community and be self-fulfilling. And again, I've found running to be such an important part of my own self care in graduate school, and I want to give that gift to others as well.
Faith E. Briggs: One of the things you said was about building community. And I wanted to ask you about building community via social media and via these platforms and getting connected, especially with different Native women who also run. How has that been? There seems to be such a vibrant, cool community, and I've gotten connected with so many folks and a lot of the folks that you're connected with. So I just want to ask what that has been like for you.
Lydia Jennings: Yeah. I mean, I think it's been amazing because growing up, there wasn't really a lot of representation of other Native women running. I mean, I think I would see... a lot of my running role models were Black women track stars, and then I would see some Indigenous women kind of running locally. But to see how many different women, and all of them talking about their different reasons, like for their kids so their kids can have that modeling of being healthy, or run for their grandma who can't run anymore. Seeing those stories I think is one of the most powerful things. Particularly with Native women, I think running is not just about themselves or about being competitive, it's really running for community and running with purpose, right? And I think that part is one of the things that I find the most moving.
Lydia Jennings: And particularly seeing youth who are like, "Hey, I'm healthy and I can do this", right? But also seeing the 70 year old woman who is still out there, she might not be fast, but she is out there doing it. And that's all I wanted when I was like... to be that old and be that graceful running. So Native Women Running is a great account follow and Native in LA, Indigenous Women Hike. There's just so many amazing women who are out there engaging in these activities and continuing to just inspire myself. And some of them, I've been fortunate enough to meet in person and to think about how we might want to collaborate, or just to learn their story alone is just enough and amazing in itself.
Addie Thompson: This next section we had an audio hiccup, but we thought it was so important that we wanted to include it. So you'll hear me in the background as Lydia weighs in on some of the most common language we see on social media that can often be problematic. This is one that is particularly interesting to me and likely many listeners who have been a part of groups that use this language.
Lydia Jennings: One that I think is always really interesting with runners, is how people use this affinity of my running tribe or my bride tribe. And my friends and I, she's an indigenous lawyer. And she and I were hiking and talking about it. And I was just saying, I was having a conversation with some runners here and talking with the word tribe. And I was like, "Maybe you could not use that." And people kind of got defensive.
Lydia Jennings: And she had a really great response, which is, I think because she's a lawyer, she was really great with words and really cuts to the point. And she was like, "Yeah, I always want to ask those people, when did it come cool to become a tribal member? Like when your kids got taken? When your house has got burned? When your family members got killed? Is that when it was cool to be a tribe? Why do you find affinity towards that now?"
Lydia Jennings: Now I was like, "Damn, that's a really great way to put it." Because now I think people are wanting to be individual and they want to reconnect away from what their ancestors may have done, in terms of colonizing and killing many of these indigenous peoples and places. But I just really loved that. And that's something I often reflect to and come back to. We're going to talk about this and how you refer to as community. There's so many amazing other words in the English language to utilize instead of one that actually degrades the tribal sovereignty that individual tribal nations, who don't want to be called tribes, by the way, we want to be called and referred to as sovereign nations that we are, but we are relegated to this term "tribe." So, at least support us and make that distinction between your social group and actual tribal nations.
Faith E. Briggs: It's been tough. I mean, 2020 was heartbreaking and tragic and filled with grief in so many ways and also caused a lot of reckoning. And I think, particularly the Black Lives Matter movement had uprisings across the country in a more solidarity driven way than we've ever seen before. And I think, with our destinies and communities being so tied together, there are these silver linings of what that reckoning is doing. And hopefully, what we hope it continues to do. So, it's been hard. And I'm also wondering what's been keeping you afloat. What's been bringing you joy? What's been helping you stay balanced?
Lydia Jennings: Well, the biggest joy of 2020 was that I finished my PhD. Because for a while there, it just felt like I was feeling around a dark cave, an abyss, and that some cave monster is going to eat me. So, the fact that I was able to get through it was huge. And I also have to say, my fur baby [inaudible 00:33:00] definitely got me through because what's better than this animal that's so excited to see you come home? They literally pee themselves in happiness. Like, even though you're like, "Ooh, girl." But it's so sweet. Or who is so excited for you to throw a ball and rub their belly. I don't know what I would've done without her.
Lydia Jennings: But I think the other part is really recognizing how important personal connection is to me and valuing it so much more. And also being really intentional about recognizing how precious life is, and not doing things that don't fill you with passion. And so, I think it's really helped me be reaffirm that I don't want to do things that make me unhappy because I feel like I should, or that's what I'm supposed to do. But instead of being much more truer to my sense of purpose.
Addie Thompson: We probably talked about this when we were with you, but Faith and I are not fans of the word should. We've started to really be very cognizant of, at least for me, when I'm using that word, I always say, "Don't should on myself. Don't should on yourself." That's what I say to people. That's my mantra these days. So, I appreciate what you said, too. Definitely agree. So, before I ask the last question-
Lydia Jennings: Wait, wait, can I [inaudible 00:34:26] you guys, and ask you what are the things that you learned in 2020? I feel like I've been talking so much, and I feel like this needs to be more reciprocal and more sharing based. That's our native teaching. So, I want to hear from you all.
Addie Thompson: That's a great question. I feel like should was a big one for me. That was also same thing, Lydia. Like I really realized how much I should on myself, how much shoulding I had in my life of, "This is what my life should look like. These are who my friends should be. This is the community, the location." I mean, fill in the blank. It was a lot of that. Faith, what did you learn in 2020?
Faith E. Briggs: Yeah. I mean, I think I'm realizing now some of what I learned in 2020. I think I had a lot of focus on hope and optimism being these things that are really closely tied together. And I think I've understood a much more complicated and nuanced version of what hope looks like, and what action through hope looks like. I'm really getting in touch with righteous anger and it being okay, and it being necessary, and really wanting to make sure that other folks in my community aren't being tone policed when our outreach comes out in really real ways.
Faith E. Briggs: But I think also, I've been just so encouraged by Black and Indigenous movements, and just constantly being reminded we got us. It really is something. And I was talking to someone the other day and it just came out and I was like, "No administration is going to give you justice." And I don't know where I heard this quote, but I think about it. It's like people who have power do not give it up unprompted, most of the time. And so, I think I've just been really thinking about what my action can look like and how I can feel the way I feel while taking that action, versus always needing everything to be really neatly tied up. It's been a year. You're the only one that's been like, "Actually, I have questions for y'all."
Lydia Jennings: Oh, really, am I?
Addie Thompson: I love it though. It's so great. And I feel so lucky to have met you on this path that we're on. And I'm so excited that there's obviously big things ahead for you in the future. And I'm so excited to keep track of your path because I think this is only the beginning, really.
Lydia Jennings: Well, we shall see, but the feeling is definitely mutual.
Addie Thompson: That was the one and only Lydia Jennings. Lydia recently completed a 50 mile celebration run in late March. With each mile, she honored a different indigenous scientist that has paved the way for her. In the last mile, she celebrated upcoming scientists of the next generation. We're so proud of you, Lydia. Major congrats.
Faith E. Briggs: Find Lydia and learn more on Instagram via @LLCoolJennings, and on Twitter via @1nativesoilnerd. That's the number one, and nativesoilnerd. You can learn more about initiatives like SCO Run Bend, Will Run for Soil, and get your daily dose of science and policy. Find the links in the show notes on thislanddoc.com/thetrailahead. You can also find our companion video series, updates and additional links.
Addie Thompson: The Trail Ahead is created and hosted by us, Faith E. Briggs and Addie Thompson. It's produced by Lentigo Williams and Co. Jen Chien is our editor. Sound design and theme music by Cedric Wilson.
Faith E. Briggs: Our podcast's art is by Shar Tuiasoa. Check them out on Instagram, @punkyaloha. Special thanks to our amazing teams from Merrill, Adam Kepper, Lauren King, Will Pray, and, from Patagonia, Bianca Bata, Sasha [Tenety 00:38:42], Claire Gallagher, and Whitney Clacker.
Addie Thompson: Big thanks also to Trail Butter and Outdoorsy, and thanks to our team on the visual side, tyler Wilkinson Ray, Fred Doris, and Monica Metejean. Thank you for listening and for spreading the word. Follow The Trail Ahead on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. See you next episode.